Seeds from Yap, Story #1 Ms. TOUME Tomoe

From Ishigaki Island to Yap Island and return to Ishigaki Island

Eco- and Human-friendly society created by Island lifestyle

It has been around 30 years since the “Yap-Japan Cultural Exchange Program” started. More than 400 participants including observers have stepped on the soil of Yap Island. Now, 30 years have passed, how do the people with a common experience in Yap Island have spent time for quarter century and what are they facing now?

As we celebrate the 30th anniversary of the program, we are going to start a column series “Seeds sown in Yap” . Here we are going to introduce the subsequent stories of participants, so that we can look back on the value and meaning of Yap island once again and get some hints on how we live and contribute to the creation of a sustainable society in the future.

The first storyteller is TOUME Tomoe, a participant in 1993. She was born and grew up on Ishigaki island in Okinawa prefecture and still lives on the island as a mother of five children. How has her experience in Yap affected her life? The first storyteller is TOUME Tomoe, a participant in 1993. She was born and grew up on Ishigaki island in Okinawa prefecture and still lives on the island as a mother of five children. How has her experience in Yap affected her life?

Program 1993 in Yap island. Tomoe is the third person from the middle right.

Spending time surrounded by nature, tradition and culture.

Weaving is like a meditation. There is joy in creating something by my hands. Spinning thread, tailoring and dying.. Here, we are still tailoring Kimono (a traditional Japanese attire) by ourselves for festivals, starting from growing hemp.

Online interview with Tomoe

Tomoe has been busy raising her five sons on her hometown Ishigaki Island. Besides helping her family’s pineapple farm, she enjoys weaving, supporting after school children care, nature games and starry sky guide.

From Tomoe’s words, you can feel the culture and traditions from the time of Ryukyu kingdom and the breath of nature around her. She has always loved nature since she was a small child.

I could enjoy seeing creatures, leaves, whatever in nature. I felt like there are treasures all over the place and the earth is shining. I was wondering why I had only one body.

While she grew up in affluent nature in Ishigaki island, she also had an internal struggle.

If I loved nature too much, I started hating people. I couldn’t forgive the destruction of nature and environmental problems caused by human. There was a problem with the new airport and red clay around this place. The rain flowed the red clay into the ocean and the water was colored with red which was painful as if blood was flowing.

She had a hard time when she was highschool and university student to know more and more about environmental problems. She refused the work which benefits humans such as teachers, doctors and farmers and decided to study biology at Ryukyu university. That time she came to know the Yap island programm.

From Ishigaki Island to Yap Island

I happened to see an article about the introduction of the program in the newspaper. It was a tiny article and the submit due date was a day after. That time I saved money by working part-time to go to Africa. So Micronesia was a place where I didn’t plan to visit.

Her instinct led her to make a phone call to Ecoplus even though she didn’t have clear purpose yet. I think a lot of participants of the Yap Island program are connected by chance like her.

There are a lot of similarities between Okinawa and Yap island. As you go from Ishigaki to Guam and Yap, the same plant grows bigger and bigger. Her first impression of Yap Island was to see a way bigger size of familiar leaves in Ishigaki.

The first activity was to drink coconut juice and weave mat with coconut leaves. We put the weaved mat on the ground and slept together in the same mosquito net. And we made natural flush toilets on the river. We always cooked together. But gradually we used up the food stock and at the end we ate rice with jam! Then local people felt pity for us and brought ready made food such as coconut, crab soup, giant clams and so on. It was very delicious.

She really enjoyed the life of creating their own life together in Yap island. She explained us as we can imagine the picture of 30 years ago.

Learnings from vegetable garden in Yap Island
A way of life that you can get anything you need from nature

During ten days in Yap Island, she had some experiences which influenced her life.

I strongly remember the memory of my homestay at Rosa’s family. One day she let me visit their vegetable garden. We kept walking in the jungle and suddenly she stopped and said “This is our vegetable garden”. I was surprised because it just looked as same as other parts of the jungle but when I observed it carefully, I could find beans, pumpkin, watermelon and so on. It was so shocking for me to know that they can get whatever they need from nature without deforestation. And I felt the environment is so affluent. We went back home with a weaved basket full of vegetables.

We can live if only we have coconut and fish.”  These words of local people changed Tomoe who used to hate humans. She had started to think that she could do something for them. “I want to do something for these people, I think I can do something.” “The experience was the most effective for me. If I didn’t visit Yap island, I might be a very disgusting person. I could somehow appreciate everything after coming back to Japan. The learnings from Yap island could gain little by little.

Tomoe was impressed by the way of life that does not burden the environment  and she found out the possibility of sustainable agriculture. She studied Permaculture in the United States and Australia and got the licence as an instructor. Even though she used to refuse to be a farmer, the experiences in Yap island shifted her way of thinking about agriculture as the important connection between humans and nature. Her experience shows us the strength of place based learning and the value of one’s awareness.

Everyone is different, everyone is special.

 After she went back to Ishigaki island, she got married and gave birth to 5 sons.

I wanted to try growing up our children in a natural way. So I gave birth my first son in the hospital but 4 other sons were born at home with my husband’s support. Just as Yappies 3 years old children walk with small knives, I let my children hold a knife and use a saw and screwdriver fleely before they become 1 years old. Some people around me said something to me though.

After children grow up, she has started working on star guides and nature games for children which is her lifework. The essence of nature games is not the knowledge itself but to feel nature with 5 senses.

You cannot see the real appearance of the flower once you think of the name of it. I think it is more important to feel the beauty, uniqueness and any other sense of feelings. Nowadays there are some children who have never seen frogs in Ishigaki Island. Sometimes I’m shocked to know some children experience nature itself for the very first time.”

I love the word “Everyone is different, everyone is special”. I can feel the word as the common thing when I am in nature

But once you look at the society, I wonder how many people understand the meaning of this sentence. I feel it in school especially. My children used to go to school with sandals but it was not allowed by the teacher. I felt constrained. I think it is better if we have space to think how to live and how to work. To understand the feeling of the connection of family, society and earth would lead us to gain the power of how to live.

Tomoe wants to let her children hold the island’s culture and nature inside themselves. While imagining the scene when she swam with a raft in the sea of ​​Yap at full moon night, she talks about her desire to let her children have such an experience someday.

Thinking of Post COVID-19 era from Ishigaki Island

Now the world is facing the problem of COVID-19, Ishigaki Island is not the exception. What does she think of this situation?

Now (26th May) the school is closing due to the pandemic, but some people around me are feeling it’s benefits. Children can be relaxed without being stressed with their homeworks.  Especially from March to May is a busy season for sightseeing in Ishigaki Island and parents usually leave their children alone. But this year I could see a lot of children and parents playing together. In addition, during this time, various creatures such as giant crabs holding eggs are appearing on the road, and they are run over by taxis and rental cars. It’s painful to see it, but it doesn’t happen this year and I’m feeling like the peaceful days are back here in Ishigaki Island.

She says every day on Ishigaki Island should not be a congestion but be more peaceful. COVID-19 would give us an opportunity to reconsider the way of sightseeing on the island.

We had 1,480,000 guests to the island with a population of 50,000 last year

Sightseeing is of course helpful for the economy however, tourists also consume both water and energy. It was actually out of our capacity, I guess. People were able to visit Ishigaki Islands with low cost careers before the pandemic. It causes the people to bring their everyday life to the island rather than enjoying the slow island time. They quickly go around the island and go back without knowing the reality. We want a lot of people to know the wonderful part of our island. That’s why I want to set a limitation of visitors and we want to welcome those who can respect and appreciate our island.

The impact of COVID-19 has put a heavy burden on our way of movement. Ironically it would lead us to think about comfortable life, the reason for moving and how to respect culture and nature where we visit. This may be true in Yap island too. Tomoe says that a more “friendly society” can be created by communicating, connecting, and respecting people and nature, and creatures.

Hopes to ECOPLUS

It was a really great opportunity for me to be able to look at human beings which I’ve kept hating, and to have a feeling of being grateful for everything within a week in Yap. I guess I was not a genuine participant but I think that the influence on people can be shown in not intended place and time. I think it is amazing that ECOPLUS has continued providing the real experience for a lot of people. There are also some stories that can only be understood among those who have experienced it. I hope the relationship will last forever.

Seeds is a good expression. ECPLUS is definitely sowing the seeds.

One seed that has returned to Ishigaki from Yap Island has spread its roots and made soil for new seeds.

Interview by KAWAGUCHI Daisuke, participant of 1999, Translation by NAOI Saki, participant of 2015

Seeds from Yap, Story #2, Ms. IWASAKI Mio

The story of a genetic researcher
From a closed space to an open world

As we celebrate the 30th anniversary of the “Yap-Japan Cultural Exchange Program” we have started a column series “Seeds sown in Yap” . Here we are going to introduce the subsequent stories of participants, so that we can look back on the value and meaning of Yap island once again and get some hints on how we live and contribute to the creation of a sustainable society in the future.

Our second story teller is IWASAKI Mao who participated in 1999 and 2001 when she was a junior high school student. Now, she is a Program-Specific Assistant Professor at the Center for iPS Cell Research and Application at Kyoto University which is headed by Dr. YAMANAKA Shinya, Nobel Prize-winning stem cell biologist.

She joined the program during the midst of Adolescence. We asked her how her experiences in Yap island gave impact on her life and research work today.

Online interview with Ms. IWASAKI Mao

Attracted by the world of gene

I’m researching several types of genes. Even if the genome is the same, the appearance is completely different if the cell type is different. I feel the differences are interesting.

iPS Cell attracts attention after Dr. YAMANAKA Shinya received the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 2012. It is expected to take a crucial role for regenerative medicine.

Ms. Iwasaki (right in picture) with her research group members.

She speaks calmly and introspectively during the interview, but once she talks about cells, she looks like a bit excited.

Mio got interested in the human body when she was in the 4th and 5th grades of elementary school. “My niece is 10 years younger than me and she was born with a disability in her eyes. I was wondering why it is happening.

After she got interested in humanities and science through her relative, the NHK documentary program she watched when she was in junior high school accelerated her interests and had a great impact on her future.

I knew about the word “Gene” in the TV program for the first time. Humans have around 30 trillion cells and each of them contains information as same as a thousand encyclopedias.  The information is properly extracted in each place, such as the brain, liver, and bone, to maintain vital functions. It was interesting to know that each cell contains enormous information. The TV program mentioned that a lot of things have not been cleared yet. That time I thought I can do something or I have to do something for this.

In this way she aspired to be a genetic researcher when she was in middle school. On the other hand, she was struggling with a lot of suffering and frustration at that time. 

Snow Camp in Niigata


Jumping into the snow 雪の中に飛び込む

ECOPLUS conducted snow camp from March 20 to 22 in a mountainous village, Shimizu in Niigata, Japan with 12 participants including high school, university students and young adults. TAKANO Takako, executive director of ECOPLUS, Shimizu villagers and 2 other staff supported the program.


Due to extraordinary warm weather condition of this winter, snow was far less than normal. We only had 50cm to 1 meter of snow at the filed where it should have more than 2 meters. However, wet snow and strong wind suddenly came when the participants began to set up the tents, toilets, the fireplace and other facilities.


Finally they set up the living space. Creative boys’ and ladies’ toilets were built in snow decorated with leaves and trees. Cooking was also done on the snow. They cut vegetables on the snow table and made fire on the snow.


On day 2, we enjoyed snow shoe hike under the blue sky. Using traditional Japanese snow shoes, called “Kan-Jiki,” we started walking. On the surface of snow, many animal footprints were spotted. The villager, ABE Kazuyoshi, taught us they were raccoon’s or marten’s. We also found marks of hares, squirrels and others.


During three days, we spent time on the snow; cooking, eating, talking, playing, sleeping, and so on. Villagers offered us a big pod of wild bore stew and wild deer curry and rice. They talked about life and nature now and then. We concentrated our senses on listening, watching, communicating, without being annoyed by modern devices. By simply using time just for living, participants had rich and dense learning experiences.






It was gorgeous to watch so many stars every night. I felt the greatness and severity of the nature.

10th grader, boy

I was surprised to find that so many things could be done with snow. Possibility is infinite only with your creativity.

Male, business person


Rice Harvesting Work under the Difficult Circumstances by Typhoon #19


Ecoplus conducted rice harvesting workshop on Oct. 13-14, 2019, at Tochikubo village, Minamiuonuma, Niigata. Due to the slow growth of rice in this year, we once postponedthe schedule one week and caused by typhoon #19, or “Hagibis,” we set the workshop one day later. Students and adults from metropolitan area were struggled to come struggling confused train and highway networks. At the end seven participants succeeded to participate the program.


With the heavy rain by the typhoon, the rice paddies was covered by an inch or two of water. It was quite tough condition although most of rice were not knocked down by the wind. In such condition, a high school boy, who experienced the work first time, learned and acquired how to cut straws and to bind those by a year old straws.


In the rice paddy, no chemical pesticides nor weed killers has been used for over ten years. Only organic fertilizer has been used. Because of such efforts, many weeds were covering the ground and many insects were hopping around. Sheaves of rice were hung along the bars called “Haza,” for sun dry for around 10 days. Through this, participants experienced the way of traditional rice production of the area until some decades ago.


Participants left comments like “Accumulating the experience for long years, I am still feeling that how difficult to make food is, and how important to have harmonious relation with the nature is. ” “I identified so many knowledges embedded in the harvesting works and I felt the tick accumulations of knowledge for long years.”


Apart from smartphones and convenient shops, Students learned how to live harmoniously with the nature in Yap

Yap-Japan Cultural Exchange Program 2019 was held from 13 to 25 August with nine students from Tokyo and Kansai area including one graduate student. We stayed at Maaq village, Tamil and experienced traditional and local lifestyle of Yap.



We stayed at the Men’s house which is the community house for men in the village. The villagers finished two-year long reconstruction work of the house in June. Because the old one was damaged by high waves caused by sea level rise, villagers decided to raise the ground 1 meter up and reconstructed new build using old techniques. Their new Men’s house was shining beautifully at the seaside. We were staying in the house hanging the mosquito nets and laid on the coconut frond mat that they weaved by themselves.


For the first half of the program we took time to gain the skill and knowledge for living. Weaving the bag by the coconut frond and walking around the village seeking for some food, washing their clothes with lemon, making fire, learning how to cook taro, bananas, bread fruits and fish which was kindly shared by the villagers, husking the coconuts and so on. By receiving the blessing of the rich nature of Yap and learning the way of living and kindness of Yapese, the students slowly acquired their knowledge and skills of the island.


In the middle of the program, the students experienced the daily life of Yapese by home-staying for 2 nights and 3 days. They were experienced the diversity of lifestyles in Yap by cooking, fishing, learning traditional skills, and attending mass at the church. They came back from the homestay with shining smile and kept sharing about their different experiences and their lovely family until 2 am in the midnight. 


The behavior of the students who created the “family” in Yap has been clearly changed. Each began sharing their knowledge and skills taught by their families at the homestay and enjoying “living” itself with feeling the freedom. In addition, they expressed their appreciation to the village as a “thank you activity” by cleaning weeds and picking up trash around the men’s house.


In addition, they were learning the serious problems what Yap island is facing and what the people are doing to solve those problems by joining the activities of  TRCT which is an organisation to protect the environment in Tamil area, visiting landfill site, recycling center and the local plate factory made by the beatle nuts tree’s skin. For the students who get precious “family” in Yap, what is happening in Yap is no longer somebody else’s problem.




In the last day, we held a farewell party together with the villagers and host families. The students shared what they have learned during their 10 days in Maaq village.

“Being alive is beautiful”

“I got the suggestion how to make my life happy”


At the final sharing meeting at the Narita airport, the students shared what they have learned and some people were talking about their anxiety to go back their “everyday life” in Japan with tears. The beautiful nature and the people’s wisdom and love will continue to live in their heart forever.  Reported by NAOI Saki


Michigan Students Learnt Japan in Minami-Uonuma


ECOPLUS hosted a group of students from University of Michigan from 19 to 20 May in Minami-Uonuma for their learning on the relation with environment, life and culture through experiencing rice planting, weaving and other activities.


The trip was conducted by the relation with Ms. Leslie Pincus of University of Michigan and TAKANO Takako, executive director of ECOPLUS, as a part of their 3 weeks long tour to Japan.

Drying cooked mountain vegetable, “Zenmei.”


On 19th, they strolled around the village of Tochikubo which is located on the slope of around 500 meters elevation. They were deeply impressed by the scenery of mountains covered by white snow and young green, saying “this land might be so expensive.” They also encountered an old lady who was drying mountain vegetable called “Zenmai.”


On 20th, they experienced traditional rice planting by hands. They screamed a bit while they put their bare feet in the muddy soil of the paddy but later they acquired how to plant young seedlings in line and they finished the work in three hours.

Traditional sitting loom, called “IZARI-Bata,” or いざりばた


On the last day, 21st, they came back to the city area, “Shiozawa,” to learn about the local ramie cloth called “Echigo-Zyofu,” which has over a thousand year history. Specialists from Echigo-Jofu technique preservation association demonstrated how to get fibers fro the skin of the plant, how to dye the yarn for patterns, and how to weave. Some of the students experienced actual works by their hands.


Through the three-day stay, they seem to deepen the understanding on the relation with life and nature, like getting fuels from the forest, drinking water from the spring, making the water system running around all the terraced rice paddies.

Students from Yap learned a lot in Japan, Short Videoーーヤップ島の若者招へいのビデオが出来ました

A short video was completed and we finally succeeded to set our website to host the big video file on our site.
We still miss those smiles and shining eyeballs of all students in Japan.


ヤップの若者の滞在の様子 link to daily reports



Boat tour in the shinny lagoon. 光り輝くサンゴ礁の海をゆく

ECOPLUS conducted its flagship program, Yap-Japan Cultural Exchange Program 2018 from 18 to 29 August with nine students from high school to university in Dechumur village, Tamil, Yap. Provided cooked and un-coocked food like bread fruit, taro, fishes, crabs and others, students learnt a lot of locals skills like, weaving coconuts fronds or fishing in the ocean.


Setting doors to the toilet and shower room.

The Program started 1992 and since then ECOPLUS continued the program almost every year. For Dechumur village, it was the first time to host the group.
The base of the program was the women’s house of the village. Next to the concrete building, local toilet, shower room and cooking place were set. Next to the toilet, some trees had very soft leaves called “toilet leaf,” so students used those for their daily use. It was easily degraded rather than toilet paper. Low impact was one of the key words of the program.


During a home stay, a student learn how to weave coconut frond.

One of the most impressive experiences was homestay. Each student was accepted by a different family for 2 nights. Modern economy and culture are changing Yap’s traditional lifestyle but the situations are different family by family. A host family was living in thatched roof houses under a huge tree and another host family has electric washing machine. However, family ties are quite strong in all families. During the stay, some families held a celebrating gathering. Through the stay, student impressed by the strong bond among the family members.


Having so many new experiences, like going to fish with local boys in the lagoon, hunting crabs in night time, being surprised the brightness of the moon, students safely return to Narita airport in the morning of 29 August. From students, such comments were continued. “It looks like the program is not yet terminated. We will digest so many things we learnt and those will guide us toward the our own lives for long time.”
They will work together to make an activity report of the program and will held a reporting session in late autumn.

International Symposium “Globalization and Local Community” on 21, 22 January


International Symposium, “Globalization and Local Community; Placed-Based Education for the Sustainable Future” will be held in Tokyo.

Dr. HAYWARD Bronwyn

You may send the application from here  >>>Application form

Date and Venues;

Saturday, 21 January 2017, Room 8101, Ikebukuro Campus, Rikkyo University
Sunday, 22 January 2017, International Conference Centre, Waseda University

This symposium offers an arena to discuss the topics from learning to democracy– how do we see the relationship between the expansion of globalism and the local community where people have lives, and how can we truly recognize essence from abundant information due to the digital society under which people sometimes feel as if we know everything, and how do we build up local community and society under these circumstances.

We have three keynote speakers; a political scientist from New Zealand whose research falls in children, environment and democracy under this changing world; a German architect who is working for re-birthing Japanese traditional wooden housings; and a Japanese photographer who has done many journeys including world conflicts areas.

Other participants involved in various fields are expected to attend, including “Forest Kindergarten” (a kindergarten raising children in nature), self-sufficiency life with small-scale agriculture, revitalization of the community, etc. We are looking forward to welcoming you to this event.

Special guests;

Dr. HAYWARD Bronwyn, Head of Department of Political Science and International Relations, University of Canterbury, New Zealand
Mr. BENGS Karl, architectural designer, Germany (currently living in Japan)
Mr. MOMOI Kazuma, photographer, nonfiction writer, Japan

The simultaneous translation (Jap – Eng) available for keynote speeches and panel discussion, and other form of translation may be arranged for break-up sessions

Overarching theme: Globalisation and Place-based education

Sub themes: virtual experiences, local area and school, livelihood, community and child rearing

Keynote 1: Prof. HAYWARD Bronwyn, political scientist, New Zealand
“Children and Citizenship: the global challenge in an urban century”

Keynote 2: Mr. BENGS Karl, architectural designer, Germany (resides in Japan)
“Revival of old Japanese houses – Why Japanese throw away ‘gems’ and take up gravel”

Keynote 3: Mr. MOMOI Kazuma, photographer, nonfiction writer, Japan
“Ladakh, India – traditional societies protected or vanished”

Break-up sessions (Themed seminars)

  • Session 1: What do you mean by “I understand” – in the time of virtual experiences
  • Session 2: Community and School – folding school down
  • Session 3: Economy of live and living
  • Session 4: Community and child rearing – experiences of forest kindergarten

Schedule: The timing may change on the day.

Day 1 (Jan 21) at Rikkyo University
10:00 Opening
10:10 Keynote 1
11:10 Keynote 2
12:05 – 13:15 Lunch break
13:15 Keynote 3
14:00 Introduction of the break-up sessions, and move to respective rooms
16:00 Re-union; sharing and summary
17:30 Reception (with fees)

Day 2 (Jan 22) at Waseda University
10:00 Opening, Panel discussion 1 – based on questions and issues of Day 1
12:00 – 13:30 Talking lunch – discussion with guests and other attendees, over your own packed lunch.
13:30 Panel discussion 2 – gathering topics from the lunch discussion
15:30 Summary and closure

Committee members;
Prof. ABE Osamu, Rikkyo University
Prof. ANDO Toshihiko, Saitama University
Dr. ITAGAKI Jumpei, Kobe University
Dr. KIMATA Mikio, Fellow, Tokyo University of Foreign Studies
Dr. SASAKI Toyoshi, Kurikoma Kogen Nature School
Mr. SAKUMA Norio, Nature Conservation Society for Dewa Mountains
Dr. TOYODA Mitsuyo, Niigata University
Mr. YOKOYAMA Ryuichi, Nature Conservation Society Japan
Prof. TAKANO Takako, Waseda University, Executive Director, Ecoplus

Supported by Japan Fund for Global Environment

Research Center for Education for Sustainable Development, Rikkyo University.
Center for International Education, Waseda University

Ecoplus, a registered NPO in Japan

Snow camp in the ““Snow country”

From March 26th to the 29th, 2016, ECOPLUS hosted the ““Yuki Zanmai,” or “Snow Indulgence” Camp” in Minami-Uonuma. Seven participants, all from elementary and middle schools in the Metropolitan area and Niigata enjoyed four days and three nights of living on the snow, where they all constructed their campsite entirely on their own.

Hiking on the snow toward the middle of Mt. Makihata. Gorgeous view!

This winter, we experienced an uncharacteristically small amount of snow. Despite being 600 meters above sea level, the village of Shimizu looked almost as though it was experiencing early spring.

Ordinarily, there would have been between 2 – 3 meters of snowfall by this point during an average year; instead, the area received an approximate 50 centimeters of snow this year. Due to this, we were worried that the “Snow Indulgence Camp” might not succeed, but we were blessed with good weather, and the children faced the challenge of living in the snow with a serious, sincere look in their eyes.

Children challenged to live on the snow by themselves. Making fire woods on the snow was one of the first duties.

A total of seven children was assembled of from fourth-year elementary school students to first-year middle school students. Some of the children had participated in ECOPLUS programs once or twice before, but this was their first time as a group in this area, as well as the first time holding an overnight camp on the snow. Everybody had a bit of a nervous look to him or her.

The children decided on their goals for the camp—some said, “It is important to take care of the environment,” while others said, “We hope to make friends here.” Once this was done, the Snow Indulgence Camp could begin.

Throughout the next four days, the children’s everyday necessities and personal lives were self-led. They trampled the snow underfoot in order to harden it, creating a space to raise their tents; they split wood for their fires; they melted snow for drinking water; and they made tables, chairs, cupboards for food, and even makeshift toilets entirely from snow. They even used snow to wipe their bottoms afterward!

They also used cedar leaves like sponges while washing their pots and pans. On the first day of the camp program, the children were confused about this new way of living, but they became as resilient as adults in only four days’ time.